How about this for sick hands

[XNavyDrummer]

It seems strange to compare the technique developed on a a Kevlar head and DCI type sticks with the technique developed on an ambassador head with much smaller and lighter sticks. You're not going to approach the two situations the same way. And the technique developed for one will not be 100% applicable to the other.

I'm still waiting for someone to put Kevlars all the way around the drum kit with some high tension lugs. Now that would be interesting to see. But it probably wouldn't sound great on the gig.

[Avi_drums]

An analogy is the difference between using a speed bag vs a punching bag. Both involve the hands and to different degrees, other muscle groups.

Like a punching bag, a drumset is a bigger object, requiring more force transferred to the hands from muscle groups in the upper body. Seeing Dennis close-up at the Jazz Cafe a few years back on a Zildjian tour, I'd never seen that degree of striking speed/force applied to a kit.

If a boxer is faster at the speed bag (or snare in the drummer's case), it doesn't automatically mean his hand technique is better or he's a better striker...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 25, 2005 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Avi_drums ]</font>

[mwm]

I was in marching band in high school -- we had a pretty good drum corp going. I was never into it too much -- busy playing rock and roll.

Most of the guys who were really good -- couldn't play a set.

Two guys did -- the first played like an accountant (no offense meant to any accountants reading this -- you may be a wonderful player [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Another guy could go back and forth and was talented on both. But I think generally, it is a different skill and a different feel for the music.

[Kurt R]

Originally posted by Avi_drums:

- the movement patterns lack fluidity

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have you seen any top tenor(quads) lines out their or some top solos? These guys can flow around 6 drums like nothing else and their usually pinstripes or suades so they can be compared to more of a drumset technique in a way...

[Don Worth]

Have you seen any top tenor(quads) lines out their or some top solos? These guys can flow around 6 drums like nothing else and their usually pinstripes or suades so they can be compared to more of a drumset technique in a way

But they crank the heads up to a linoleum contertop tension and the drums at the largest are 12" or 13" and not a lot of distance when 2 of them are 6". Not saying they have no chops, just not the same as going for a fill on a 5 piece set with any distance betweeen drums.

[MacNDrum]

We need to look at it from another angle. Forget hands and chops for a minute.
DCI is practicing the same 11 minutes of music for hundreds of hours. Depending on what Corps you're in you're locked even further into one style.
The best set players are knowledgeable in ALL styles of music and have the ability to interact with other musicians dynamically. With sounds, timbres, etc.

my 2 cents

[Vdrummer]

True Dazzler, pipe band drum lines will score poorly if the technique is placed ahead of the musicality. In competition, bands suffer if the drum line plays too loudly overpowering the pipes, or is unmusical. Imagine if a professional kit player only got paid if a group of their peers found their performance musical, accurately played and dynamic. Pipe band drummers know the music so well because the scores are written with musicality in mind and they are all memorized and rehearsed a thousand times.

Inherent in what Jim said is that for the music to be played musically the technical demands of the music must FIRST be mastered. After all, you can't play a beat, fill or snare part musically until after you've made over the technical requirements of the piece. First you have to get over the rudimental challenges, then the dynamics and phrasing. Lastly you work to get it all up to tempo and blending well with the pipes. Check out the pipe band score I posted on my earlier post to get an idea of what sort of demands they expect surpassed.

I'm not advocating pursuing technique over music; I'm just commenting that rudimental styles require hand development several levels beyond what the best drum set players can handle. And yes, I also agree it is apples to oranges.

[Avi_drums]

...'know the music' inside out. THAT'S what is important, far beyond chops and will stand any drummer in good stead

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Physical technique and musicality are two different subjects.

[Dazzler]

Physical technique and musicality are two different subjects

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">not when physical technique is lauded over musicality in the context of a drum performance.

[zmorton]

[/QUOTE]Physical technique and musicality are two different subjects.[/QB][/QUOTE]

I disagree; especially when the style of music demands a certian level of physical technique in order to be musical.